Best Buy & Geek Squad Policies

[karluccio]

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virtualchoirboy wrote:
After running into the no receipt/no return policy a few hours ago, I figured I'd take a look at the forums. After reading this thread, I had a thought that I just had to share.

You know who else had a pretty strict return policy and wouldn't take back stuff without a receipt? Circuit City. Anyone else remember them and how well they did?

/just sayin'

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Also CompUSA... before they were acquired by Tiger Direct. They're now pretty awesome store. I bought my replacement TV, after I returned the one I bought at Best Buy. Just this week I needed a BR player for friend's housewarming party. Guess who got my business? Hint: it's not BB.

I'm actually going to contact State Attorney General's office after the holidays are over. Warning is not a warning, once you're blocked for 90 days. Had I been aware that my return would be denied BEFORE making a purchase, I would NOT have purchased anything. I'm sure any one with senses would see right through this BS.

Also, as I'm looking through some of the replies here, I think this matter is ripe for Class Action look-see...

[Mbrguy Emerging Expert]

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karluccio wrote:

I'm actually going to contact State Attorney General's office after the holidays are over. Warning is not a warning, once you're blocked for 90 days. Had I been aware that my return would be denied BEFORE making a purchase, I would NOT have purchased anything. I'm sure any one with senses would see right through this BS.

Also, as I'm looking through some of the replies here, I think this matter is ripe for Class Action look-see...

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From the Return Policy of Best Buy.

"Best Buy reserves the right to deny ANY return or exchange." (emphasis added)

So, you have been measured and found wanting.  Best Buy can deny any return, so good luck, you'll need it.

[virtualchoirboy]

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Mbrguy wrote:

From the Return Policy of Best Buy.

"Best Buy reserves the right to deny ANY return or exchange." (emphasis added)

So, you have been measured and found wanting.  Best Buy can deny any return, so good luck, you'll need it.

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Just because they put it in their policy, that does not necessarily make it legal.  In this case, one party to the contract (contract of purchase) is forcing terms on the other and the 2nd party has no option to negotiate.  Situations like this are getting tossed out as unenforceable contracts all over the place.  Take a look at how EULA's are being discarded by the courts.

While I don't think karluccio will get very far with the Attorney General, it's his/her right to try.  To be honest, I think a Federal Trade Commission complaint would have better results.  Best Buy is skating a thin line of legality with a "warning" that's actually a final notice and would consider this a deceptive trade practice since it's not properly published as to what the limits are.  They don't publish the limits because they know there would be a backlash.  Unfortunately, given most of the laws regarding retail sales, they MUST be up front in their disclosures or face heavy penalties.

Maybe you don't remember Circuit City getting slapped with fines and being forced to refund "restocking fees" because it was not properly displayed or marked at the time of purchase?  BBY is welcome to have all the draconian return policies in the world.  The problem is, they must be properly spelled out with clear limits or else they are in violation of the law.

/just sayin'

[CrimsonRain]

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virtualchoirboy wrote:

Just because they put it in their policy, that does not necessarily make it legal.  In this case, one party to the contract (contract of purchase) is forcing terms on the other and the 2nd party has no option to negotiate.  Situations like this are getting tossed out as unenforceable contracts all over the place.  Take a look at how EULA's are being discarded by the courts.

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Well yes and no. Best Buy's policies do not override the law of the land in any way. With that said, Best Buy is a private business and they have a right to dictate their own terms of business as long as it does not violate state or federal commerce laws. As far as I know, there is no law dictating returns and exchanges. All retailers have the clause in their return/exhange policy to reserve the right to deny any return or exchange. It's their way of protecting their business. No one is forcing terms on anyone. Best Buy has a right to set their own terms of business and the customer(s) have a right to agree to it and complete a business transaction (the contract). Situations like this are not tossed out like you think it is. THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE HERE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT. The fact of the matter is simple. Best Buy, like any other business, sets the terms of their business. You, as the customer, have a right to either agree to it and shop there or shop somewhere else where you believe the terms of business are fairer.

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virtualchoirboy wrote:

While I don't think karluccio will get very far with the Attorney General, it's his/her right to try.  To be honest, I think a Federal Trade Commission complaint would have better results.  Best Buy is skating a thin line of legality with a "warning" that's actually a final notice and would consider this a deceptive trade practice since it's not properly published as to what the limits are.  They don't publish the limits because they know there would be a backlash.  Unfortunately, given most of the laws regarding retail sales, they MUST be up front in their disclosures or face heavy penalties.

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I'm sure the FTC is aware of this and I'm 99% sure they have told the complainers to pound sand. Why? See above. I'm also 99% sure that businesses that set these kinds of policies have an overpaid legal team that researches this before enacting it. Best Buy does not have to post what their return/exchange limit is for two reasons: 1) They can call it an internal trade secret. 2) That would leave room for more abuse. I don't know of any retail sales laws but I do know of merchant laws. It is true that all businesses must post their policies "in a visible manner" and not be vague about it. Smart businesses just like to post the end-all-be-all clause of "we reserve the right to refuse business to anyone" and "we reserve the right to deny any return." Don't like it? Don't shop there.

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virtualchoirboy wrote:

Maybe you don't remember Circuit City getting slapped with fines and being forced to refund "restocking fees" because it was not properly displayed or marked at the time of purchase?  BBY is welcome to have all the draconian return policies in the world.  The problem is, they must be properly spelled out with clear limits or else they are in violation of the law.

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Actually, I do remember well what happened to Circuit City. Some of my co-workers left Best Buy to work there during CC's final days only to come back begging for their jobs. I believe I already spelled it out for you in a different thread but you just tried to deflect it stating that their return/exchange policy contributed to their downfall, which is totally false, but if you wish to prove me wrong, then feel free to post a credible source link supporting your claim. Here's mine. Oh, and "having worked in retail in the past, I pay attention to this sort of thing" doesn't cut it as proof. Best Buy's return/exchange policy is spelled out clearly. Just look at the giant 10x10 signs posted either at the customer service counter or the front lane registers. Or just look at the back of your receipt.

/lol at people making a connection between Circuit City and Best Buy where there is none

[virtualchoirboy]

@CrimsonRain: From your own article...  "For many consumers, however, Circuit City's most obvious failing was its customer service."

Hmm... I wonder if return policies and how they are handled could be considered "customer service".  Why yes, I think they are.  See, if you anger your customers by making them feel cheated, they follow the steps you outlined and stop shopping in your store.  Then you have a problem moving product and rack up loan interest on merchandise you can't move.  Then your bottom line takes a massive hit and the stock market starts pushing your stock price down.  Then you get desperate and start slashing benefits, pushing horrible warranties and looking for quick, high margin sales.  Unfortunately, none of that will make your customers feel any better, so they continue to stay away and the downward spiral continues.  In the end, I would much rather spend an extra 10%-15% knowing that my needs as a customer will be handled with courtesy and respect.

You want "proof"?  You probably won't accept it, but take a look at Ripoff Report and the 1500+ reports. Costco?  They've only got 93 entries and they do customer service right. There is another consumer complaint site with 800+ reports.  Costco only has 89 there.  It's obvious to me that there's an issue with their customer service... just like Circuit City had.

The point I'm trying to make is that BBY is starting to treat ALL it's customers as if they are trying to commit fraud.  We understand there are a "bad apples" out there abusing the return policies, but we can also see when a company is harshly punishing ALL customers for their behaviour and we don't like it.  It's a blatantly obvious sign of a corporation pinching pennies to improve their bottom line and makes us wonder how else we're getting ripped off. 

To be honest, I doubt any of this will convince you of how I feel, but that doesn't change my feelings.  More and more of my friends are spending their money elsewhere.  Considering we're a prime demographic (28% tax bracket or better, homeowners, kids) that should trouble BBY and make them reconsider their policies.  I'm pretty sure they won't though so my gut tells me their days are numbered.  Granted, it'll probably be a few years before they're completely gone, but unless something changes, I don't see how they can survive.

[TechSavvyChick]

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virtualchoirboy wrote:

You want "proof"?  You probably won't accept it, but take a look at Ripoff Report and the 1500+ reports. Costco?  They've only got 93 entries and they do customer service right. There is another consumer complaint site with 800+ reports.  Costco only has 89 there.  It's obvious to me that there's an issue with their customer service... just like Circuit City had.

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I would like to point out that the 1500+ reports from Ripoff Report date back to 1999. As well as the 800+ from PissedConsumer date back to 2007. So as to call this "Proof" is far from it. Those numbers are mere decimals in the long run.

[virtualchoirboy]

Fine. For Ripoff Reports, we'll only go back as far as Costco does. Let's see, the oldest Costco report is from Feb 19, 2002. The first Best Buy report after that date is #1,460 from Feb 21, 2002. So instead of 1500+, we've only got 1460. Or how about just complaints from 2011. Well, there Best Buy has JUST 127 - more than all of Costco's history. The comparison was between a company that I believe does customer service properly and yet remains profitable (Costco) and one that doesn't (Best Buy).

The point you might see if you look up is that Best Buy is being strict with their policies and while that is their right, they need to realize that such actions have consequences. They may be able to improve the per customer profit margin but the end result is that they will have fewer customers. If you improve margin by 1%, but lose 5% of your customers, your net bottom line at the end of the year will take a hit.

I know you're thinking "so what, a few disgruntled customers leave". The problem is that with online retailers getting stronger, brick and mortar stores need every customer they can get. Policies such as the "future returns denied" and "no receipt/no return" don't help.

[karluccio]

I say, let Best Buy be best bye....

For me, it's: "see best buy, drive by"

My client wants a MBA, so tomorrow I'm headed to the apple store, instead of BBY. how much this little policy had cost bb of MY purchases? By my count, so far in the last month - close to $7k. You show me a business that lumps customers like that with the rest of the bad apples, and I'll show you a failing businesses model.

Stay awesome, bb.

[CrystalWoW Community Veteran]

First off, Best Buy has DOUBLE the stores Costco does. Also, Best Buy is an electronics specialty retailer. Costco is a big warehouse where there aren't really associates on the floor. It is essentially self serve. What is there to complain about? Read through some of the costco complaints. Many are from the recent tightening of the return policies.
Complaint numbers mean nothing when you are comparing apples and ... plywood. Not even close.

[TechSavvyChick]

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CrystalWoW wrote:
First off, Best Buy has DOUBLE the stores Costco does. Also, Best Buy is an electronics specialty retailer. Costco is a big warehouse where there aren't really associates on the floor. It is essentially self serve. What is there to complain about? Read through some of the costco complaints. Many are from the recent tightening of the return policies.
Complaint numbers mean nothing when you are comparing apples and ... plywood. Not even close.

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I was about to say the same thing Crystal!!! Costco- 592 stores, BB- 1150 stores. Costco.com- 58 million visitors annually, Bestbuy.com- 159 million visitors annually.

"On March 9, 2009, Best Buy became the largest electronics retail store (online and bricks and mortar) in the eastern United States, after smaller rival Circuit City went out of business. Fry's Electronics remains a major competitor in the western United States, while hhgregg remains competitive in the eastern United States."